Do NOT attend tier2 or 3 schools

Energetic · Post by **Energetic** » Thu Mar 13, 2008 7:46 pm

I don't know why AlHindi got such a bad rap. Actually I might have a guess: most people who don't like negative posts have too much crap in the office to accept more at NP. It doesn't make AlHindi's point any less valid. The point as such is somewhat overstated because there are always ifs and buts and all sorts of exceptions. Nevertheless in the current market conditions it is to a large degree correct.

I'll disagree with Bachelier and agree with filthy on the benefits of self education.

Samy - congratulations. Drop me a line with final analysis.

doctorwes · Post by **doctorwes** » Thu Mar 13, 2008 8:12 pm

For entry level positions, we can and do hire people from anywhere; we don't screen out candidates who didn't attend "top tier" schools. But due to lack of resources, we have to focus our campus recruiting efforts on a fairly small number of places. So in that sense, AlHindi's comment is quite valid.

For experienced hires, which school you went to matters very little. As NS said, track record in the industry is overwhelmingly more important.

AlHindi · Post by **AlHindi** » Fri Mar 14, 2008 12:10 am

I do not why people bring irrelevant points. People get emotional on hearing the facts. People are talking about how experienced people are not screened based on what university they went to, true, but am I talking about them? I am talking about people who have no experience, joining a masters in quant finance related subjects from sub standard univ like Fordham, Georgia, UNCC, Kent, UCLA, Bharuch, 3-4 unknown ones around NYC, Oklohama and what not. These people will be wasting time and money. And I am not taking about 4-5 thousand bucks, but huge amounts of tuition and opportunity costs because of lost time not working. Given current market scenario with even experienced people losing jobs, how many of this sub standard univ students landing jobs?

Any hiring person here can speak more and confirm this. How many sub standard school grad resumes did they even consider? I am only stating facts to people who are planning on joining these Universities and not to people who are already in deep hole. Those people can consider it as a sunk cost situation and then think they got noting to lose from that point on. But what about people applying from India and China. Do you know how much fees these people will end up paying? If they don't get jobs after graduation how will they pay it back?

tabris · Post by **tabris** » Fri Mar 14, 2008 1:06 am

You said this: "I do not why people bring irrelevant points. People get emotional on hearing the facts." But later mentions this: "Any hiring person here can speak more and confirm this. How many sub standard school grad resumes did they even consider? I am only stating facts to people who are planning on joining these Universities and not to people who are already in deep hole."

So, in FACT, you merely DO NOT know what is going on and just going off on your OPINION. Maybe it is tough to make a distinction between your reasonable assumption and reality, but I would still refrain from repetitive use of the word fact when you are merely stating an opinion.

Just to stay in the realm of a marginally useful post, our firm is always looking for talents and we do have tier 2/3 school employees at our firm. I make sure that when I talk to new grads (PhDs or Masters in whatever Finance) that they DO NOT have your attitude about their degree. I am actually alot harsher on tier 1 school grads when interviewing them than I am on tier 2/3 school grads but that is just me.

AlHindi · Post by **AlHindi** » Fri Mar 14, 2008 2:54 am

Tabris,

First of all if I have offended you in someway, my apologies. You sure have more knowledge than me about quant finance. I am not sure why you think I am displaying attitude and that I am from tier1 school?

Firstly, I am from tier2 school and I am there by choice. I could not quit my job. Secondly, I am paying instate tutiton and whole masters cost is 8000 bucks, which is reimbursed by my employer. I am not paying a dime. Thridly, I want to study at my own pace and not that of set my tier1 structured program. Worst come worst I would not lose anything. My comments were based on facts because I see what I said around me. I was specifically refering to people who are going in full time after quiting in their day job or coming to US from India and China. These people will end up spending somewhere between 30,000-40,000. If they do not land a job, how will they pay this money back? I have at least 5 friends at my school who are looking for jobs and running out of visa time. Things don't end there, they have more friends in other tier2 schools in same boat. No job and diminishing visa time. Now tell me if they go back to India, how will they pay all that money back with Indian salaries? I spent greater part of early life in poverty and debts because my family was poor. You may not have an idea how hard it is to live in India with debts. I do. What I say is from my experience. People are actually quiting good jobs in India(paying around $20000, this is good money in India) and raking up debts. My post was for them not for people who can afford it.

baraider · Post by **baraider** » Fri Mar 14, 2008 2:56 am

>>>I am talking about people who have no experience, joining a masters in quant finance related subjects from sub standard univ like Fordham, Georgia, UNCC, Kent, UCLA, Bharuch, 3-4 unknown ones around NYC, Oklohama and what not.

Dude !

At least know what the heck you are talking about.

Fordham has only admitted its first student in Fall 07 and will not graduate anyone until later this year

UCLA is a brand new program and will admit its first students in Jan 2009.

The name is Baruch, not Bharuch (let's assume you mistyped it)

What do you know about the placement of each program you mentioned ?

You probably can learn some thing useful from this discussion about second tier programs

>>>Given current market scenario with even experienced people losing jobs, how many of this sub standard univ students landing jobs?

Do not know much about the programs you list (2 of them haven't graduated any student and many don't publish the stats) but I can tell you the placement at Baruch is rather good (especially compared to its more expensive counterparts)

Baruch MFE placement

Good intention is one thing, misinformation is another.

AlHindi · Post by **AlHindi** » Fri Mar 14, 2008 3:10 am

OK I made a typo it is baruch and not bharuch. But that does not change the fact that it is tier2 school, or does it?

baraider · Post by **baraider** » Fri Mar 14, 2008 3:22 am

Please don't keep repeating FACT. There is no such fact about ranking. tier 1, 2, good, bad are in the eyes of the beholder.

That asides, would you be able to give more details on what's going on at your school and your friends' in term of internship, placement ?

How is the career service ? What have they done to earn the money ?

If you don't mind, can you tell us which school you and your friends attend ?

The info may be of more use than just making a post saying people to not attend so-called "tier 2" programs.

You may want to post on the thread I linked. They are discussion tier-2 programs as well.

By the way, you may be one of the few who calls Baruch MFE second tier. Talk to people who familiar with the MFE scene in NYC and see what they say.

AlHindi · Post by **AlHindi** » Fri Mar 14, 2008 3:54 am

OK, think about this hypothetical scenario. In this tough market, a top company wants to hire a entry level quant. The recruiter has resumes from top performers(GPA and background wise let us say) of each school. Assuming all resumes are true and recruiter likes all resumes from all top performers of all schools. The recruiter has only got time to do 5 phone interviews for that postion. What schools will he pick, if he likes all the resumes equally. If he were to short list by schools which ones he will go for? Will he go for baruch? or will he go for CMU,Berkeley, stanford, NYU,columbia, or princeton? You can figure out tier1 schools by hypothetical scenrios like this.

baraider · Post by **baraider** » Fri Mar 14, 2008 4:10 am

By recruiter, I assume you mean HR people at firms, not headhunters.

Sorry that you have to go through recruiter to get a job. Most students from top programs got jobs through direct contact with hiring managers. That's how it works at nyu, Baruch, CMU.

Whatever happens in your school may not happen at others.

You do really have no idea how things work at a lot of program.

Good luck with the hypothetical thingy you try to do here. I think i have said enough