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Kirkaine · Post by **Kirkaine** » Sun Jan 16, 2011 12:09 pm

Apologies if similar threads have already been posted, I can find plenty of threads about the transition from academia to finance, but none the other way.

I'm finishing my BSc in Mathematical Physics and looking at my options afterwards. I'm attracted to finance (probably trader more than quant), thanks to the high pressure kind of work (not to mention the great pay), but I'm not sure if I want to make it my life's work, preferring to turn back to physics research at some point.

The question is, what's the most sensible way to do this? Does it make more sense to do my PhD fresh out of college, take the finance detour, and then try to find a job in academia (probably what I'm leaning towards), or does it make more sense to try to apply to grad school after some time in finance? Anyone else had a similar experience they'd like to share? And just what usually does happen to old traders anyway?

Thanks in advance.

sv507 · Post by **sv507** » Sun Jan 16, 2011 2:36 pm

How much time are you planning to spend in either field?

I would have thought that you would need to be a trader for at least 7 years - 2 years learning the ropes...

Personally - I would go for the Phd straight away and carry on to physics research, and only consider finance if you become disillusioned with research. Any academic position you get will stand you in good stead when looking for a finance job.

If you did what you are suggesting you would have forgotten all your physics by the time you returned to academia (whether you return to grad school or applying for post doc), and you will surely be considered a pretty poor prospect...

Kirkaine · Post by **Kirkaine** » Sun Jan 16, 2011 2:49 pm

That's what I'm afraid of. I'm just thinking super-long term. Retirement seems pretty boring to me and look at how many 60 year old professors there are compared to 60 year old traders.

granchio · Post by **granchio** » Sun Jan 16, 2011 3:06 pm

it will be basically impossible to go back to physics research after years out.

if you do research at a good level, being out six months already kill you - you can't afford to stop.

so in short: if you go into finance now, forget doing proper physics later.

you might of course do it as an amateur, as Soros does phylosophy

benji · Post by **benji** » Mon Jan 17, 2011 9:06 am

I would agree with granchio, however the reverse transition can happen, a good friend of mine worked for two years as a quant, decided it was not for him, and quit to go back to physics as a postdoc. He is much happier now. Mind that he had good research credentials and was never out of touch with former colleagues. I do not know whether the stint will harm him on the long run.

nuno · Post by **nuno** » Mon Jan 17, 2011 12:29 pm

probability of return to physics from 2 yrs in finance with a PhD and good contacts in academia seems small but nonzero

probability of return to physics from n yrs in finance armed with a BA seems 0. recall that you must be *admitted* to the grad school, by someone who likely does not know you. your time in finance will influence the person admitting you to think that you are unlikely to complete the PhD and stay in science, making you less likely to be admitted.

i'd say do a PhD 1st if you want academy as an option, or go to finance but don't plan on the academy "taking you back" in the form of PhD admission.

one exception to the above is if you are self-funding, that is if you show up and say "admit me and i'll pay my own tuition and stipend". then you're less of a risk for the uni.

buddyforall · Post by **buddyforall** » Wed Jan 19, 2011 2:59 pm

Without being sarcastic, you sound a bit confused. What is the common ground between a Trader and a Physics Researcher.

You can do a PhD in Physics work as a Quant for 5-10 years and then return to academia as a Mathematical Finance Professor. Even better you can do a PhD in Mathematical Finance and do the above mentioned. These are the routes that people seem to take who wish to mix academia with business(finance).

As mentioned by others, all other routes are improbable.

veroniq · Post by **veroniq** » Wed Jan 19, 2011 6:40 pm

buddyforall, a good friend of mine returned to maths after a year as a quant, and in certain places (tilted towards getting very academic people) it is not an uncommon route. I have also heard of traders retiring and going to teach at school.

However, I haven't heard of traders returning to academia in the form of financial maths/mathematical finance. maybe my sample is just too small, but traders don't seem academic enough (in a good sense btw) for such a career move, and also, they are usually a little too sceptical about math finance research.

Very academic research quants can go back, but they need to have a PhD before they start as quants.

doctorwes · Post by **doctorwes** » Wed Jan 19, 2011 8:00 pm

A friend of mine returned to mathematics after two years as an equity quant, but he had already done a postdoc before moving into finance, and what's more he had a stack of unpublished results, helping him to get a flying start once he re-entered academia.

Another friend left a trading desk to do a PhD in number theory, did a postdoc and then went back to investment banking. So that is possible too. But I certainly wouldn't have tried it myself.

jslade · Post by **jslade** » Wed Jan 19, 2011 9:34 pm

I know a guy who went from chemical physics to banking (he was a structuring guy), to Chinese art dealing then back to physics (optical) again. Anything is possible, but I doubt he planned it this way. It helped to have powerful friends: his thesis adviser in physics was a BSD.