LENR anyone?

TSWP · Post by **TSWP** » Mon Sep 07, 2015 3:48 pm

I was curious to know if anyone on this phorum has followed the recent developments in Low Energy Nuclear Reaction devices generating anomalous heat production, if you have any direct knowledge from insiders working in the energy field saying that LENR is being seriously considered to substitute nuclear, oil, wind and solar plants in the next few years.

Most information available on the internet on the LENR topic are very vague and amateurish, although some patents (including US) have been granted in the last few years and also in 2015, and some large players (Shell, NASA, the Japanese Government, etc.) have set up their own LENR research labs, but no-one knows if they can really deliver commercially viable energy generators.

Just curious if anyone has first-hand information on this.

purbani · Post by **purbani** » Wed Sep 09, 2015 10:40 am

I'm no physicist but from the little I have read about it the evidence in support seems very very slight with people like Rossi and Focardi giving the entire 'field' a bad name. Some better informed comments in this article

TSWP · Post by **TSWP** » Wed Sep 09, 2015 11:14 am

> from the little I have read about it the evidence in support seems very very slight with people like Rossi and Focardi giving the entire 'field' a bad name.

Well, Focardi died a couple years ago, but Rossi apparently had been granted a US Patent: us9115913b1.

[url=/User%20Files/8822/us9115913b1.pdf]Attached File: us9115913b1.pdf[/url]

Plus a US company called Industrial Heat LLC has bought the rights to his energy production device in 2012:

"Mr. Vaughn confirmed IH acquired the intellectual property and licensing rights to Rossi's LENR device after an independent committee of European scientists conducted two multi-day tests at Rossi's facilities in Italy. The published report by the European committee concluded, "Even by the most conservative assumptions as to the errors in the measurements, the result is still one order of magnitude greater than conventional energy sources" [referring to energy output per unit of mass]. The report is available online at http://arxiv.org/abs/1305.3913. In addition, performance validation tests were conducted in the presence of IH personnel and certified by an independent expert."

I find it hard to believe that these guys from Industrial Heat LLC (read this 2015 article about them) have not even checked what they were buying, and poured millions of dollars into the venture and their parent company (Cherokee) is a 2 Billion USD investor, you don't get that type of money if you are a complete moron.

On top of this there are a number of other "replicators" out there that seem to have achieved similar results and are trying to learn how to make it into a viable commercial product, I am not going to post links, there is plenty of info about this on the net.

The question is: this stuff would put oil companies (and many other energy companies) completely out of business, IF it works for real.

Hence the nature of my question: has anyone direct info on this? From some insiders that can say "yes, this is real".

Additional hint: is the recent Oil demise correlated? I am just speculating here, but the Oil correction started when Rossi published a study at the end of last summer 2014, showing the results of his energy-reactor working for some time in Lugano, with surprising results (high COP, etc.). Probably there is no correlation, as Ray Dalio would say, just a coincidence, but still it looks like a very phunny coincidence.

Tradenator · Post by **Tradenator** » Wed Sep 09, 2015 12:15 pm

You need to start with Fleischmann and Pons, not Rossi and Focardi. I was a student when this nonsense first started and can remember all the papers flying around the place debunking it. So far, I'm still surprised that this nonsense was allowed to be published in the first place, but I do understand human nature and how it got carried on into science fiction and conspiracy theory afterwards.

To get the two deuterons to react (fusion) you need to either increase the temperature (eg, stars) or magically reduce the width of the Coulomb barrier in the wave function.

I think these people are arguing that condensed matter many body effects at room temperature can magically squeeze the Coulomb barrier enough to entice a nuclear interaction. I don't think so, but then again I have not been near this type of research for a long time, and quantum mechanics as we know it could be wrong.

Patrik · Post by **Patrik** » Wed Sep 09, 2015 2:17 pm

Can't comment on the physics but the oil correction is defiantly completely unrelated to any new source of energy - no need for fancy conspiracy type theories when you have an oversupply of oil itself ${L_SMILIES_SMILE}$

TSWP · Post by **TSWP** » Wed Sep 09, 2015 2:34 pm

> the oil correction is defiantly completely unrelated to any new source of energy - no need for fancy conspiracy type theories when you have an oversupply of oil itself ${L_SMILIES_SMILE}$

agreed

TSWP · Post by **TSWP** » Wed Sep 09, 2015 2:40 pm

>I think these people are arguing that condensed matter many body effects at room temperature can magically squeeze the Coulomb barrier enough to entice a nuclear interaction. I don't think so, but then again I have not been near this type of research for a long time, and quantum mechanics as we know it could be wrong.

I am not an expert in this field so I cannot comment on the nature of the reaction or the theory of it.

I am interested in the disruption-of-an-industry that may be generated by a new energy product because a) it has relevance for my market research on energy markets and b) it may have a number of consequences for the economy and every day life, although we are probably still very far from a commercially viable application in this case.

TSWP · Post by **TSWP** » Sun Sep 13, 2015 11:16 am

For the sake of additional information, I am pasting a description of the "Rossi effect":

Until Rossi discovered the Rossi Effect there were basically only two categories of LENR studied:

1. Palladium – Deuterium(the original Cold Fusion process)

2. Nickel – Hydrogen

The Rossi Effect is a completely new discovery in the field of LENR technology and raises the available power density of LENR processes several orders of magnitude to at least 10 kW/kg. With Power Densities this high most conventional Energy Applications have the potential of being replaced with an ECAT energy source.

The Rossi Effect is based on a LENR process including Hydrogen and Lithium where Nickel is merely used as a catalyst and is not consumed in the process (some Nickel – Hydrogen reactions occur but the major part of the Nickel is not consumed and can be recycled). The Hydrogen – Lithium reaction is highly exothermic;

1. Li7 + H1 → Be8 → 2He4 + 17.3 MeV,

where the 17.3 MeV (=2.8*10-12J) is released as heat. This is equivalent to an Energy Density (Specific Energy) of 209 million MJ/kg or 58 million kWh/kg or 5 million times the Energy Density of Oil.

ECAT uses Lithium Aluminium Hydride (LiAlH4) as fuel for utilizing the Rossi Effect. The benefit of Lithium Aluminium Hydride as a Fuel Source is that it is a solid and therefore much easier to handle than ordinary Hydrogen Gas. Leonardo Corporation received a US patent for this ECAT process on the 25 Aug 2015.

When heated Lithium Aluminium Hydride decomposes in a three-steps:

1. 3 LiAlH4 → Li3AlH6 + 2 Al + 3 H2 (R1)

2. 2 Li3AlH6 → 6 LiH + 2 Al + 3 H2 (R2)

3. 2 LiH + 2 Al → 2 LiAl + H2 (R3)

(R1) is usually initiated by the melting of Lithium Aluminium Hydride in the temperature range 150–170 °C, immediately followed by decomposition into solid Li3AlH6, although (R1) is known to proceed below the melting point of LiAlH4 as well. At about 200 °C, Li3AlH6 decomposes into LiH (R2) and Al which subsequently convert into LiAl above 400 °C (R3). Reaction (R1) is effectively irreversible. (R3) is reversible with an equilibrium pressure of about 0.25 bar at 500 °C. (R1) and (R2) can also occur at room temperature with suitable catalysts. When Nickel is added as a catalyst Lithium and Hydrogen will start to diffuse into the Nickel Lattice after the decomposition of the Lithium Aluminium Hydride and at high enough temperature, 600 – 1200 °C, the Rossi Effect will kick in and convert Lithium and Hydrogen into Helium under the release of vast amounts of energy.

Especially beneficial is that gamma radiation is naturally absent in the Rossi Effect because the energy is only released as kinetic energy through thermal Helium nuclei which later thermalize the Nickel Lattice and the inner walls of the ECAT reactor core, under impact, turning kinetic energy into thermal energy. This makes the Rossi Effect ideal for utilizing nuclear sized energy in the complete absence of both radioactive materials and radiation.

pj · Post by pj » Sun Sep 13, 2015 4:14 pm

[img]/User%20Files/126/Andthenthemiracleoccurs.jpg[/img]

NeroTulip · Post by **NeroTulip** » Mon Sep 14, 2015 3:44 am

I have only glanced at this, but what I would like to understand is the following:

Is there a reproducible experiment that is widely accepted by the scientific community that shows anomalous energy generation, and we are just arguing about how this energy was created, or is the experimental result itself -the anomalous energy generation- contested?