NuclearPhynance Archive

i was wondering how long (in hours) the average work week was for people in quant finance/development??



today my boss got mad at me because i have been leaving at 5:15 every evening (i start work at 9 am) and according to him all employees should come in before the boss and leave after the boss



btw, im not in quant finance, but i am involved in software development

There are three parts in your post that are ridiculous, in my opinion:



1. First, generally, the concept of Facetime is useless to begin with. Especially in an area like software development where lots of creativity and thorough thinking are required.

Facetime is something stupid people and lawyers do (large degree of overlap between these two groups). It's about productivity. If you get more shit done in less time than anyone else, by all means feel free to go home at noon. (note, that if you are in a good team, this is unlikely. If you can actually do that... change teams because obviously the people around you are a drag on you!).



2. You coming in at 9:00 and leaving at 17:15. That would generally be considered short in phynance, unless you were a grains trader. That's a 41.25 hour workweek. Phynance isn't Phrance, regardless of both beginning with a "Ph". As an example: European Equities open at 09:00 and close at 17:30. You don't work in phynance, so this doesn't really apply.

Again, number 1 overrules this principle.



3. Your boss' notions about coming in after all the employees and leaving before them is rather pathetic. I come in before everyone and (usually) leave after everyone or with the last person. "Boss" implies leadership and whether he likes it or not, armed forces figured out how to do that about three thousand years ago. You have to lead by example. It's rather difficult to get people do something for you (say.. jump out of a trench into gunfire... or, less dramatic, maybe trade a swaption...) if you're sitting back in your easy chair on the golf course. Also, if you have that much time and number 1 does not apply (i.e. you're not the most productive guy by far)... it means you are.. underutilized! Find something useful to do!

We've seen with that twat James Cayne what happens to firms where the boss plays too much bridge.



A usual work week involves something like 70-90 hours for me. 70 if I'm not doing anything on the weekend and 80-90 if I work on the weekend. But these hours can vary quite a bit from field to field.

This has been my work experience my entire career, and has been my expectations of my teams since I have been running them. I think that in productive and smart shops, this is normal.



Rule 1: Come and go as you please. I don't care. I want you sharp and happy.

Rule 2: Make sure I can always reach you if I need to

Rule 3: Just get the work done and done right



With those rules in place I find we work from 50-70+ hours a week, everyone voluntarily, with a bunch of vol and clustering in these numbers. Some days people sleep till noon because they need it. Some days people work until 3am because we are trying to code / trade / backtest / etc. something. The leave after the boss is an 1) Asian and 2) archaic thing. Our traders are more bound to US trading hours and, unfortunately, Asian trading, but they rotate around to make it work.



When ever I speak at uni's I talk about my work culture graph. The horizontal axis is prob of being shitcanned. The vertical axis is expected income. It generally goes as exp(). On the bottom left is accountants, HR, support, etc. They WILL make their 70k, even if they are morons, because the system protects them. Their jobs are strictly defined, much like widget makers on an assembly line. They will work 9-5, no more, no less, and they will milk lunch breaks. All the way out to the right are people who are told to build something, not told how, given a time constraint, and their choices are 1) make a bunch of money by monetizing their grey matter or 2) get the sack. I think one's culture says a bunch about where they fall in there.

Rule 1: 9:45 is too late and too Phrench.



Rule 2: Don't be Phrench and write, "Nonius, I'm taking vacation from X to Y. Thank you for your comprehension, Respect, Christophe"



as for me, I work pretty much all the hours I'm awake, including holidays (except weekends), since I've a Crackberry and there's always a problem somewhere in the world.

that's what i used to do up to friday night.

am born again now.

errrr, ....



I'm 46 and have a big staff now. I probably work 45 hours a week, at my office.



However, I'm *always* increasing my knowledge base and have a Crackberry.



But no one has pointed out: the leverage you have on the past.



Simple tasks it would take me an hour to explain I can do in ten minutes myself. Example: a Markowitz or Black portfolio optimization.



But also, I *HATE* the new Microsoft VISTA, but the guys under 26 on my desk have no problems with it at all and have adapted quick.



But the point is: my effective working hours are closer to 100 to 120 hours a week because I have 1) leveraged what I already know and am quick and experienced, and 2) good at identifying what I don't know and need to get soemone else to do, or 3) good at identifying things that are better delegated.



I've got a good friend who is much more talented than me, but he can't delegate to anyone ('casuse there is no one there) and even when someone is there, he is always faster....so he ends up working whacked hours.



So I guess another point is that the hours you work and the hours you should work are usually sub-optimal until you get to be an older senior management fart like me, and your productivity or lack of it is washed away in the noise of the beavers beneath you.

Granchio, why are you born again ?



1) you were disappointed with your bonus and then you decided to slow down



2) you are on garden leave (and you succeed into break up the hiring freeze that is currently spreading all over the quantitative space ...)



3) both

I guess, time spent on nuclearphynance is infinitesimal...

because otherwise i'll f*cking die of exhaustion. simple

by the way: hiring freeze? yes there is some freezing, but it is not full. some houses (including the shop am at) are still hiring.

but of course it is more of a buyer market now