Hello all,
The goal: Work at a top quant hedge fund/prop shop developing automated trading models (time series analysis/prediction, econometrics, etc etc) in commodities or FX.
The issue: I have read on several threads here that a MFE simply prepares you to be able to price derivatives. Clearly, that is tangential to what I want to accomplish. So my question is, what would be the best Master's concentration to enhance my marketability to quant hedge funds/prop shops?
What I've been considering (definitely open to other ideas too):
-Computer Science
-Statistics
-Computational Finance/Fin Math (Though I think these are pretty close to a MFE)
-Applied Math
Any suggestions would be great. Thanks!
Specific Goals, Ambiguous Road to Them
-
prophet
- Posts: 0
- Joined: Thu Jan 01, 2004 12:00 am
Specific Goals, Ambiguous Road to Them
The areas of study you mentioned are good.
Also start by collaborating with others in your situation. Learn to develop profitable trading strategies and the resources necessary. No one will tell you the secret sauce, at least not all of it. But you can learn a lot by reading between the lines on forums like this one and by collaborating with others.
Unfortunately knowing the secret sauce for quantitative models and algorithmic strategies is only half the battle. Once you reach the top, you need to stay there. Others will try to take you down. The financial world is full of engineers with strong strategy development track records that find themselves out of a job because they became a target of someone who actively took them down. You should have a good attorney and good understanding of the laws, especially IP and employment law. The world of capitalism today is as much a poker/chess game as it is a marketplace.
The most qualified software engineer I know is both a software engineer and nuclear reactor engineer/operator. He has multiple US software patents to his name and was decorated by the US government for preventing a Fukushima-level radioactivity release (detecting early metal failure in reactor primary coolant pipes by numerical analysis of coolant data). He once told me: "Engineers like us are treated like equipment. Without equity/ownership over the valuable technologies we create, we are used, abused, discarded and actively taken down by others to advance their careers". I've never heard a more true characterization of what highly successful and motivated engineers experience in their careers. Its especially true in finance. The more motivated and successful you are, the more often you'll experience it.
Also start by collaborating with others in your situation. Learn to develop profitable trading strategies and the resources necessary. No one will tell you the secret sauce, at least not all of it. But you can learn a lot by reading between the lines on forums like this one and by collaborating with others.
Unfortunately knowing the secret sauce for quantitative models and algorithmic strategies is only half the battle. Once you reach the top, you need to stay there. Others will try to take you down. The financial world is full of engineers with strong strategy development track records that find themselves out of a job because they became a target of someone who actively took them down. You should have a good attorney and good understanding of the laws, especially IP and employment law. The world of capitalism today is as much a poker/chess game as it is a marketplace.
The most qualified software engineer I know is both a software engineer and nuclear reactor engineer/operator. He has multiple US software patents to his name and was decorated by the US government for preventing a Fukushima-level radioactivity release (detecting early metal failure in reactor primary coolant pipes by numerical analysis of coolant data). He once told me: "Engineers like us are treated like equipment. Without equity/ownership over the valuable technologies we create, we are used, abused, discarded and actively taken down by others to advance their careers". I've never heard a more true characterization of what highly successful and motivated engineers experience in their careers. Its especially true in finance. The more motivated and successful you are, the more often you'll experience it.
-
alebron
- Posts: 0
- Joined: Thu Jan 01, 2004 12:00 am
Specific Goals, Ambiguous Road to Them
1. Your goals are almost definitely too specific. Based on what you write, it's very unlikely you know what developing models for commodities and FX is like, and how those asset classes would differ from developing models for equities, bonds, or anything else. What about other related roles (risk, testing, trading, etc)? In situations of high Knightian uncertainty, keep your options as open as possible until as late as possible.
2. Your goal is one that is shared by literally tens of thousands of applicants competing for (being generous here) a few hundred openings. Since part of being good at developing trading models is having good second-order knowledge, here is an opportunity to test what yours is like: what reasons do you have to believe that you have a significant edge over the average applicant, let alone the 98th percentile one, conditioning on the information available to you?
3. Given the a-priori numbers in #2, you should probably think carefully about the likelihood that you will fail at getting a job developing automated trading models at a top quant HF/prop shop. In that eventuality, which degree will give you the best shot at achieving your next-most-desirable employment goals?
4. This is actually just restating #3. It's been said on this forum many times but bears repeating: worry more about finding a degree in which you will learn stuff that excites and interests you, that makes you wake up in the morning thinking "I can't wait to see what I learn next!" than how your degree will look, or what it will signal, to a prospective employer. Skilled interviewers are quite good at detecting the difference between someone who "did it for the love of the game" vs "did it for the embossed vellum". 1 of the former is worth 10 of the latter. Actually more, the 10 latters are probably worth -ve value at a top HF/prop firm.
2. Your goal is one that is shared by literally tens of thousands of applicants competing for (being generous here) a few hundred openings. Since part of being good at developing trading models is having good second-order knowledge, here is an opportunity to test what yours is like: what reasons do you have to believe that you have a significant edge over the average applicant, let alone the 98th percentile one, conditioning on the information available to you?
3. Given the a-priori numbers in #2, you should probably think carefully about the likelihood that you will fail at getting a job developing automated trading models at a top quant HF/prop shop. In that eventuality, which degree will give you the best shot at achieving your next-most-desirable employment goals?
4. This is actually just restating #3. It's been said on this forum many times but bears repeating: worry more about finding a degree in which you will learn stuff that excites and interests you, that makes you wake up in the morning thinking "I can't wait to see what I learn next!" than how your degree will look, or what it will signal, to a prospective employer. Skilled interviewers are quite good at detecting the difference between someone who "did it for the love of the game" vs "did it for the embossed vellum". 1 of the former is worth 10 of the latter. Actually more, the 10 latters are probably worth -ve value at a top HF/prop firm.
-
buddyforall
- Posts: 0
- Joined: Thu Jan 01, 2004 12:00 am
Specific Goals, Ambiguous Road to Them
Do you want to work as a Quant or do you want to be successful ? Trying to achieve both at the same time will not be an optimum strategy. You are better off learning one of the 4 subjects in great detail. Stat, CS, AM are used in all sorts of industries and can be a career hedge. Figure out where you interest lies and specialise.
If all you are after is a well paying job in finance then get a MFE/MBA from a reputed university.
If all you are after is a well paying job in finance then get a MFE/MBA from a reputed university.