Physics anyone?

seebee · Post by **seebee** » Mon Jun 09, 2008 7:28 am

I've done some searching on physics and string theory in these here forums and found a mixture of information and chit-chat, but still find myself wanting. I'm sure I'm not the first and surely not the last physics student contemplating a career as a quant. I'd be interested to here from those who've done just that, as I'm finding my attachment to academia waning these last years of my education. In particular, is there a demand for high energy theorists? Does the lifestyle consist of new-lawyer-type work days? What sort of abilities and knowledge are transferrable? Anything. Really.

bloodninja · Post by **bloodninja** » Mon Jun 30, 2008 3:42 am

yes, physics / mathematics does translate to finance. but mostly it relates to mathematicians / physicists who pursued their 'art' for the sake of it. to wit, following completion of their research projects or post docs one thing came to another and a question did arise. there are many stories related to that question, almost all of which are worth considering, since there doesn't seem to be any one way really.

in short, finance is a challenging and vastly interesting place to spend a career..... as is mathematics and physics. although, some of the previously mentioned arenas have far more opportunity and challenge then others. data for example can range vastly between disciplines. but, for some it becomes a question of pace...the minutes of the job itself. these matter. since they stack. due to those minutes some seek many interesting minutes back to back; and others prefer more time to contemplate...less pace. to each their own. and there are places for each appetite really.

their is no one way. we each have to find what works for our own selves.

good luck.

bloodninja.

Nonius · Post by **Nonius** » Mon Jun 30, 2008 6:41 am

and then there's the minor point that an average quant armed with a Ph.D. makes 7 to 10 times that of a tenured professor. but of course, that's not the driver; it's the intellectually stimulating problems to solve in finance.

rod · Post by **rod** » Mon Jun 30, 2008 8:03 am

What if Quantitative Finance were a huge conspiracy? Smiley

Given the huge decline in the number of job positions for physicists after the end of the Cold War, the bitter, unemployed physicists decided to create this urban myth that Physics PhD's are absolutely vital to the success of any decent trading team Wink This large-scale conspiracy is being played not only by the former Physics grad students, but it's also being supported by the illustrious professors still in academia. The former grad students find a way of paying the rent, while the profs see an oportunity to direct their PhD students to Wall Street as soon as they defend their dissertations Evil Grin If this conspiracy were ever uncovered, some HR dudes in shiny offices would discover that they should hire less PhD's and more hackers who dropped out of college because they liked coding more than doing endless homework assignments.

Seriously now:

I think that Nonius' tale [url=/Show%20Post.aspx?PostIDKey=7803]The Orgy In The Riviera[/url] illustrates quite nicely what it feels like for an ex-academic to enter the "intellectually stimulating" (Nonius' words) world of QF. I am not kidding.

Path Integral · Post by **Path Integral** » Mon Jun 30, 2008 11:38 am

Well, it's a well kept secret that banks were actually invented as a way to finance the intellectual masturbation of freshly graduated Ph.D.'s, out of a job post-docs, etc comming out of maths and physics departments. Furthermore, finance is one of those fields of human activity were the practice still does not obey the theory. There's still a lot of work for ambitious Ph.D.'s to make the markets obey the theory. Piss

In short, if you don't mind doing a lot of grunt work there's a lot of satisfaction to be gotten from a job in finance. Don't expect a bank/HF to pay you for being smart or for holding a Ph.D. If you think our responses are blunt, don't get into this biz b/c you're going to get a lot of that.

bloodninja · Post by **bloodninja** » Tue Jul 01, 2008 4:02 am

well, the original post mentioned string theory, which is an unusual theory in physics in that it is in no way related to data... of any kind. consequently, more then one string theorist woke one morning and realized 'what the fuck am i doing? this is going nowhere fast. what now after all that kool aid?' some of those then turned to more data intensive subjects including finance, comp bio, and many other subjects.

and yes, many mathematicians / physicists choose finance for the money, and make their way towards trading etc. faust etc. some do. not all. many are happy to tinker around with this or that for whatever compensation and many aren't. e.g., many leave completely for whatever reasons.

in short, basically attempting to reiterate my original point that there's more then one story; e.g., one size doesn't fit all so on and so forth.

kronon · Post by **kronon** » Thu Jul 03, 2008 4:25 pm

Physics has become so fragmented that quant finance is almost as much a branch of it as condensed matter or optics is. So yes, there is some 'knowledge' transfer. But thats not really the issue. The issue is your way of life. You are now a career man. The luxury of dreaming is lost. Money comes from more mundane pursuits.

But this is so general as to apply to no one. It depends on when, where and what job you get. What do you want to hear? That its interesting? It can be, but it can also be boring and stupid. That its lucrative? It can be, but I know bright PhDs doing shitty analysis jobs for not very much. That its well-regarded? It can be, but to many you're nothing but a marketing device.

And there is no more particular demand for high energy theorists in finance as there is for a specialist fluxmeter operator.

polysena · Post by **polysena** » Thu Jul 03, 2008 5:35 pm

Nice post Kronon.

lando · Post by **lando** » Thu Jul 03, 2008 11:44 pm

"I've done some searching on physics and string theory in these here forums and found a mixture of information and chit-chat, but still find myself wanting"

Don't give up now, Ed. That Nobel is yours, dude!! Perhaps, you

can convince the folks at IAS to let you run the endowment.

Lando.

ps. That work on Super Yang-Mills, brilliant, useless but brillant..

bloodninja · Post by **bloodninja** » Fri Jul 04, 2008 3:10 am

no, it is wrong to say that cm consider finance to be part of their discipline. because they don't whatever the arXiv might suggest to you. instead, in cm, as opposed to HE, finance is very much frowned upon. i can quote nobles if you like.

the difference being, and there are books published on this matter, that cm jobs are numerous whereas HE are not. the HE folks are then faced with a question. a subject i alluded to earlier. that question pertains to career descicions that are far more apparent to HE then they are to CM.

or, in other words....abandoning the politeness, why is it that don't you know this...what data haven't you been reading?

cheers,

bloodninja